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Saturday, August 26, 2006

Hitler’s Cross: Nothing much to be crossed about

A few days back there had been quite a furor over a new Mumbai restaurant for its name – Hitler’s Cross. The restaurateur Punit Shablok claimed that the motive choosing a name like that was to differentiate itself. Nothing in the food menu suggested of Hitler or his Nazi Party. Only the name of the restaurant was such with a big picture of Hitler and the Nazi Swastika inside. Of course, the Swastika was all over – in the cutlery, signs, menu card etc.

As expected, the Jews were the most hurt. They believe that Punit Sablok by naming his restaurant as such was promoting Hitler. Sagarika Ghosh in CNN IBN questioned Punit if he had any idea about what the Nazi ideology or Nazism was, and as expected, Punit fumbled with words. It is a different story altogether, whether Sagarika himself knew much about Nazism.

Solomon, the King of Indian Jews (Jewish Society of India chairman Jonathon Solomon) was saying how misinformation (or no information on historical facts) has made today’s youth so insensitive, blah, blah, blah…

The Japanese killings of prisoners during the World War II were much worse than what happened to the Jews in Nazi occupied Europe. We tend to forget the Rape of Nanking, the Ambon torture and killings of Australian troops (especially the airmen), the tens of thousands of prisoners and forced labourers who perished working in horrific sub-human conditions building the railway lines in Thailand for the Imperial Japanese Army. The movies The Bridge on the River Kwai and Blood Oath are small depictions as to what the Japs did during World War II. Then don’t forget the Korean Comfort Women and the horrors they faced every moment.

The Nazi persecution of Jews pale in comparison with the horrors the Japs subjected to their prisoner of wars and the inhabitants of their occupied land. The plight of Asians under the Japanese was far greater than one can imagine; many folds of what the Jews faced at the hands of the Nazis.

Yet, the Japanese Emperor Hirohito not only managed to escape prosecution and execution but also stayed as the Emperor of Japan albeit without powers. Japanese politicians show little or no remorse of what their Wartime predecessors did and routinely visit places like this to pay obeisance to war criminals.

The Holocaust itself is a subject matter of debate. I firmly believe that in order to justify a land for the Jews (creation of Israel out of nothing but biblical references), the West had to create a story so horrific that humankind is moved enough to accept and support Israel. The West had to save themselves from the embarrassment because it was the European nations who were mainly responsible for whatever happened to the Jews at the hands of the Nazis. It is a historic fact that the Christian world always hated the Jews and have always persecuted them. Remember Shakespeare's Shylock in The Merchant of Venice? However, we all know now what a wrong move it was.

Where are we? Was Auschwitz any different from Trnopolje? Did you ever see the pictures of those held in the Bosnian detention camps as recently as in the 90s during the civil war Yugoslavia? Are they any different from those held in the Nazi concentration camps?

The Jews are no more precious than the others who suffered during the World War. Yet, why is this hypersensitivity and hyper-activity when it comes to anything that is vaguely anti-Semitic or goes against the interest of the Jews? Today this has resulted in anti-Islam wave across nations. The Muslims are systematically persecuted all over; racial profiling, discrimination and what not.

Hitler’s Cross is just a sign. There cannot be a single school of thought in a democracy. If Hitler was a monster, Hirohito was a greater monster and in the post-War era, Mao Zedong was an even greater killer.

Who will ban all signs of the commies, who will severe all ties with the Japanese politicians. The question is who will bell the cat?

Punit Sablok, I am very sorry that my beloved democratic country will never get your point.


Blogger Whetam Knauckweirst said...

So, you're saying we should boycott all Japanese restaurants because according to your WWII scorecard they outdistanced the Nazis in brutality?

I'm always fascinated by the specious logic people use when speaking of one atrocity; how they seek to downplay it by quoting other atrocities. Guess what, they're all horrific. And none of the perpetrators should be cast in a light that even remotely mitigates their heinous deeds. Pick and choose all you like, tolerance of a certain level of "acceptable" atrocity is not the sign of an open or enlightened mind. It's just another cowardly form of racism.

8:17 AM  
Blogger Beau Peep said...


I have never said that we should boycott Japanese or Chinese goods. When it comes to history as we see/know it today, we must not forget that more often than not, it is scripted along the ideology, propaganda and in line with the thoughts of the victors of wars.

There is no reason why we should believe about a Jewish holocaust especially in the face of so many other similar atrocities having being ingnored.

Should we ban symbols of Judaism for the crime and atrocities perpetrated against the Palestinians by Israel like the Star of David, or Islam for 911 like the Star and Crescent or for that matter the symbols of communism for Mao's bloody campaign against not only the Tibetans, but his own people? Even the Cross can be offensive to certain segments of people, especially those who were tortured and killed by the missionaries in the middle ages. [ Ref. 1 ]

The Swastika is a Hindu religious symbol (notwithstanding the direction it shows). Why is it banned in Germany? The bigger question is why are Nazi symbols create such a fuss when the world is so full of similar or even more horrific tales.

I agree with your point that atrocity by any name is atrocity. Killing of one or a million is same according to me.

My point in my post is that it is why should we be skewed in our approach towards certain facts in history and overlook or ignore others? Jews are no more special than any other faith, or for that matter, from even those who don't follow any religion or belong to no faith.

10:26 PM  
Blogger DesiGirl said...

What about the atrocities committed by the British when they ruled India?

6:45 AM  
Blogger It's Me, Maven... said...

Amen, Guru.

7:25 AM  
Blogger MrKen45 said...

The Holocaust is NOT a matter of debate, except by the willfully blind and stupid. To quote your own source, Wikipedia --

"...They are nevertheless commonly labeled as "Holocaust deniers" to differentiate them from historical revisionists by those who consider their goal to be not historical inquiry using evidence and established methodology, but rather to try to prove that the Holocaust did not occur, regardless of historical evidence..."

"...The Jews of Europe were the main victims of the Holocaust in what the Nazis called the "Final Solution of the Jewish Question" (die Endlösung der Judenfrage) or "the cleaning" (die Reinigung). The commonly used figure for the number of Jewish victims is six million, though estimates by historians using, among other sources, records from the Nazi regime itself, range from five million to seven million. Millions of other minorities also perished in the Holocaust in addition to this figure..."

"...Many scholars do not include the Nazi persecution of all of these groups in the definition of the Holocaust, with some scholars limiting the Holocaust to the genocide of the Jews; some to genocide of the Jews, Roma, and disabled; and some to all groups targeted by Nazi racism. Taking all these other groups into account, however, the total death toll rises considerably, estimates generally place the total number of Holocaust victims at 9 to 11 million, though some estimates have been as high as 26 million."

You assert without any evidence whatsoever, except your obvious racism, that, "I firmly believe that in order to justify a land for the Jews (creation of Israel out of nothing but biblical references), the West had to create a story so horrific that humankind is moved enough to accept and support Israel...The Nazi persecution of Jews pale in comparison with the horrors the Japs subjected to their prisoner of wars and the inhabitants of their occupied land. The plight of Asians under the Japanese was far greater than one can imagine; many folds of what the Jews faced at the hands of the Nazis."

Worse than killing non-combatants with poison gas, torture, starvation, obscene medical experiments, slave labor.? Millions of Soviet P.O.W.s were simply starved to death or shot out of hand by the Nazis.

You are, however, right about one thing-
"It is a historic fact that the Christian world always hated the Jews and have always persecuted them." So why is it that you are so obtuse that you cannot fathom how outrageous is it that anti-semitism still continues up to the present day? And so obtuse you cannot fathom the revulsion about the Swastika that causes it to be banned in Germany even in 2006?

As for your hand-wringing about the 'persecution' of the poor MINORITY - the Muslims---here are two more facts from Wikipedia-

"Judaism is the religion of the Jewish people with around 15 MILLION followers as of 2006, making it the twelfth-largest organized religion."

A Muslim (Arabic: مسلم, Turkish: Müslüman, Persian and Urdu: مسلمان) is an adherent of Islam.There are approximately 1.31 BILLION Muslims worldwide.

1:42 PM  
Blogger Beau Peep said...

Mr. Ken,

It is always wonderful to have the views of a person like you. However, the Holocaust is a matter of debate. I linked Wikipedia because that is generally taken as an unbiased source of information. However, having said that I would like to make it clear that whatever is there in the Wikipedia is not the gospel truth. Articles are created and edited by common people like you and me.

To label the Holocaust revisionists or the deniers as ‘stupid and willfully blind’ is suggestive of a particular school of thought, and I don’t belong to that. If you asked my personal opinion, I don’t deny or believe in the Holocaust. You can say that I am not really sure whether it actually took place.

Why? Because the name Hitler has become an anathema in the current times hence, there must be a strong reason. However on the other hand when you go through arguments and refutations like these, you can’t help but take notice.

As far as the numbers of Holocaust victims are concerned, it is a highly debatable subject. Even those who fled the Nazis are counted as victims who perished at the hands of the Nazis. The numbers you cited here are fantastic to say the least for many neutral-minded people, let alone the Holocaust deniers or the revisionists.

Stalin perhaps murdered more people in concentration camps than Hitler and Mao definitely did. Since Stalin was on the victors’ side, he is not even close to being as notorious as Hitler. His portrait is all over the offices of the Communist parties of countries all over the world, including India.

The Zionists have been trying their best for thought control of the world because this is the only way they can justify Israel and their mass murder and persecution of the Palestinians and also ferment trouble in the Middle East.

9:42 PM  
Blogger virat0 said...

This post, which intentionally or unintentionally whitewashes the massacre of jews is abominable. You still say some people in India are insensitive. Hitler has massacred so many people, why would you call it into question ? There are these egyptian islamists who deny holocaust. You are not a stalinist nor a chinese agent - for chinese agents would dispute Mao's slaughter as you do for hitler. Thats why it is insenstive to confuse with Hitler. One shouldn;t be defending former terrorists , shadowy characters like Arafat, and the Hamas ? Hitler Slaughtered the jews just like Pakis made their land pure.

Again , it is not in nice taste to read you have confused hitler. What of he massacred 1 million instead of 5 millions ? What if Mao and Stalin massacred more than that ? All these are worthy of contempt.

Many Indians somehow find all the virtue in certain Yasser arafat, Hamas. This is not because of the zionist controll( They oppose Arafat) . It is because of the european racists who have agents in high places in India.

5:13 AM  
Blogger Scott said...

And who is naming restaurants after Hirohito? Who is naming restaurants after Stalin? Who is naming restaurants after Mao or Tito or... you know what? You're a moron. You have zero logic in this post.

11:57 PM  
Blogger Beau Peep said...

Scott, I won't take offense of your language. Blaming you would be like blaming fire from burning, filth from stinking. I could have rejected your comment, but I thought publishing it would expose your stupidity.

Forget restaurants, there are political parties named after Mao and Stalin in democratic countries. There are many restaurants in Mao's name all over the world. But restaurants are not the issue here.

I have explained here in my blog why we don't need to be Hitler's apologists. If you want, you can see my reasons there.

However, my advice to you is that you refrain from stretching your mind. Your small brain my just burn out.

12:53 AM  
Blogger Pryvett Rawgers said...

Pryvett Rawgers said...
Well Mr Beau Peep; it sounds to me like you and Ernest Zundel were going to be some of the best customers at the hitler restaurant. It seems in your post that your anti-semitic views have come throught loud and clear. first of all you say that the holocaust is a matter for debate. I agree that there are matters for debate like any historical subjects, like how many people were really killed, etc. But I believe there is no hard crediable evidence that this horrible event did not happen. The evidence is overwhelming both in documents and living witnesses. No crediable historian of any stature would argue that this event did not occur. Even those people who you say were not so bad as compared to the japanese, the nazis left copious written records on their terrible deeds. Just go to europe and see the concentration camps or talk to survivors to get the full horror of this atrocity. Or are they all part of some world wide zionist plot.

Then you imply that the holocaust was some hoax created by the jews and the west to create the state of Israel. Man those jews most really control the world if they had that much power to create a huge multilayered, multinational hoax like that, so they could create their own jewish state. No wonder there are alot in the movie world, they are really good at producing and staging events.

Than you conterdict yourself by stating that the european christians felt so bad about what happen during the 1930's and 1940's that they created Israel to rid them of their collective guilt. Talk about specious logic Me Peep, you can not have it both ways, either the holocaust happened or it did not, please make up your mind.

You seem to be keeping a score card over who suffered most in history. Unfortunately as you know human history has a cruel and bloody record. Many peoples over the centuries have been prosecuted, enslaved, and massacred. I agree with one thing you said and that is the jews do not have a monopoly on suffering in this world, their plight was not any better or worse than others in history. A crime against humanity is still a terrible thing know matter who it is against, it should be condenmed by all decent civilized human beings. All war criminals or bloody dictators should pay for thier crimes. I agree that Mao and Stalin were worse mass murders than Hitler if you do a body count, but they were all amoral scumbags that should have been cut down, before they could have done any damage. . I hope that they and their compatriots are all working at a wal-mart in hell with their lips sewed to each others assholes.

I also agree that the japanese aggression in asia was a horrific and terrible thing. I believe that a lot of the japanese people realize this and feel much remorse for the actions of their country during WW II. I do not see them opening up a comfort women's inn or Tojo's sushi house. Even in your own link to the Yasukuni shrine there was notice of japanese citzens protesting their PM's visit. Also the present Emperor of Japan;Akihito; in a speech expressed remorse and apologised for japanese outrages during the war years. I do not believe that thier WW II actions are as acceptable in modern day Japan as you believe.

I am a libertrian by nature, and believe in live and let live, I am against censorship in any form. I do not think that this eating spot should be closed down, that is up to the indian public to decide. I just think iit is in bad taste to name a restaurant after such a evil person, and all in the name of the amighty dollar or rupee. Exploiting the pain and suffering of others for profit. thats just not right.. The crimes of the nazis are too recent in history there are still people alive who suffered during hitler's bloody run. it is still a fresh wound on humanity's psyche to be opening restaurants that glorify it.

At the end of your blog you say that you hope that India gets Mr Sablok's point about opening this restaurant. I would like to know what you think his point is? Is it for educational purposes, I think not, it all has to do with money.

By the way I am sorry I got the number of jewish people wrong in India, I am not an expert on the world jewish diaspora, I was just quoting some of the press reports that I had read.

Also as for your point about the swastika, I know it had a long and honorable history in the east, but like it or not the nazi's appropriation of this symbol has forever tarnished it, especially in the west, so do not blame us if many people find it offensive, blame the good old nazi party.

So beau peep, Bon Appetite, I think you really lost your sheep on this issue.

2:45 PM  
Blogger Beau Peep said...

Dear Mr. P Rawgers,

I am 29 and the war in question took place and ended long before my life. I see history as it is presented today and I am well within my rights to accept or reject or for that matter be skeptical about certain facts when there is a huge amount of circumstantial evidence to refute established beliefs (that some consider as propaganda).

In this particular matter, I have only tried to point out the existence of another school of thought on the Holocaust. The two new generations of people after the World War II were fed on certain theories in society, school textbooks, government propaganda and what not to make believe that the Holocaust was indeed the horror story as it is widely accepted today. However, I have properly linked the site where the minority voice of the Holocaust revisionist speaks out with evidence.

Now coming to your assumption that I am an anti-Semitic, I would like to say that being and Indian and a follower of a non-monolithic faith, I have no historical or personal grudge against Jews. If at all there is something that I do not like is the brutal campaign of State-sponsored terror against the hapless Palestinians. This is what I see now. As far as your statement - “Man those jews most really control the world if they had that much power to create a huge multilayered, multinational hoax like that, so they could create their own Jewish state.” – goes, I would like to say that this indeed is the case. The economic and government institutions in the US is indeed controlled by Jews. The Jewish lobby holds a significant vote (as they vote as one) during elections. The political parties in the US cannot afford to antagonize the Jews. Unfortunately, the US is the only superpower in this world now without any checks and balances for its actions.

I am NOT an anti-Semitic, actually far from it. You say that I have ‘lost my sheep’ on this issue. It is disgraceful to say the least that you should choose to live on borrowed thoughts without a mind of your own.

The point I tried to make got lost on you completely. I have followed this up with another post here. I hope that you will be able to understand it and my point if you have not lost your marbles already.

Thanks for dropping by and commenting.

10:10 PM  

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